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I like it a lot clearer 

Thanks, all feedback welcome: good and bad! It's still a work in in flux and subject to change as we receive more feedback. Please help us by reporting dead links 

Think you my have a problem with 

Hardware>emontx

i get The requested page could not be found.

Thanks, it's been fixed 

Should the 'Community Forum' & 'FAQ' be included beneath the 'Resources' menu item?

-Resources
--Community Forum
--FAQ

If so, is there a need to duplicate the 'Site Map' in the right hand column as it's the same as the 'Resources' link?

The top level of the menu items should not link, but be a heading to contain the links, maybe it's a Drupal foible??

Ideally, shouldn't it be:

-Resources
--Community Forum
--FAQ
--Site Map

Paul

Good idea. I've added Forum and FAQ to the Resources tab. I've also kept the FAQ in the Get Started tab. It's important to remember that the drop down tabs don't work on mobile devices therefore any links in the drop down tabs need to also be linked from the page linked to from the main tab title item. 

Currently the Emoncms tab contains a link to Install Guides, this doesn't feel quite right. Would it not be better for the user to link straight to the emoncms.org site then from there onto the Docs section to view the installation guides? Putting a link to the install guides as a drop down from the front page feels like jumping the gun and potentially scaring new users into thinking that emoncms must be installed on their server in order to use. I didn't want to remove myself since the install guides linked to from the drop down tab is a different guide than the emoncms docs links to V9 instead of Master Branch. 

Pease keep the feedback coming as we continue to tweek...

Should there be a dedicated "Applications" page linked within the 'Get Started tab'? I'm also concerned that the Wiki will get ignored and needs better integrating with 'Resources' (is this label intuitive enough, was 'Building Blocks' better?).

Mobile navigation

Yes that is a problem, and does restrict mobile users. Have you considered adding a mobile menu plug-in to resolve this.

Install Guides

I agree it's a bit brutal!

I've been playing with Github pages which would soften the visual transition between the two sites if you wanted to - see http://paul-reed.github.io for a rough example.

Paul

Gwil,

You need a "Buying Guide" below "Get started". "What do I need for this?" is a common question here in the forums.
And it would go a long way towards solving Glyn's "… users … thinking … emoncms must be installed …"

You need a main title "Technical Information" with "Building Blocks" [Hint:Principles & Theory], "GitHub" [Software repositories for OpenEnergyMonitor project] and "Wiki" [Hint:Technical Documentation] as drop-downs beneath.

Glyn,

"Forums" and "FAQs" need to be easily found, like as a top-level item on the main menu. "Resources" is far too general, the whole site is a resource - and how does it translate for those whose first language is not English?

@Robert do you not thing the System Overview serves as a good buying guide? I'm not overly fond of the title 'Buying Guide'. Sounds a little bit like we're forcing purchase of our hardware on users...maybe this is just me, happy to be overruled on this one. However after people have read the system overview do you not think users will understand how the system is used? Admit the system current system overview probably needs a bit more info added to perform this task

@paul i did have a brief look for Drupal modules to help with mobile interface but couldn't find anything that looked satiable. I don't think it's then end of the world. Github pages look nice, would be good for thinks like Emoncms docs. MkDocs could be another option to make nice circumvention pages from GitHub. Impressed with OwnTracks Booklet docs which use MKDocs

Excellent work, a few thoughts ......

I agree "resources" is a bit vague and it's 2 sub-items should be far more prominent.

The emoncms top-level menu should go to an emoncms page within OEM which could give a short description of what it is (explain local and remote) and where things are with links to the repo and emoncms.org, perhaps removing the need for the "Software Modules" part at the foot of the "Hardware" landing page. links to pre-built images etc

This would resolve the mobile devices not seeing the sub menus too

IMO the top-left links should be for direct one-click off-site links eg shop | wiki | forum | blog | github for those that know where they want to go. And the black menu bar should be the top-level of a more structured content index, much like the "hardware" is already.

about, open-source and people should be in the same top-level menu "about" and the landing page could have links to history, people, community, open-source, etc each with a short description of what is on the linked page, the landing page shouldn't have anything that isn't repeated on a linked page as users that use the dropdown will not see this landing page. to this the "labs" and a "future plan" could be added.

That theme could be carried through eg "Hardware" the existing page could be just a landing page with a picture of each device with wiki, repo, shop or guide links using the usual icons for the wiki, repo and shop where as the "guide" option takes you to the devices own landing page much like the existing "hardware sub menus" do now.

"Software" could be another that explains and links to the individual repos, with a OEM page expanding on what it is, eg useful scripts, emoncms modules SDcard images etc

"Contact" is a high scoring SEO item and could guide users to the shop, the forum, github issues etc. it could explain how to post, when to use the forum verses shop-support or when a forum post should be use rather than a github issue. An email contact/enquiry form perhaps, another link to "people"?

"building-blocks" or the theory stuff is a very valuable resource that should be flaunted more and if it was more accessible it may reduce the forums traffic somewhat. maybe use sub menus and landing pages to break it up and make it easier to navigate

I agree with Glyn about the buying guide and think well positioned links to the specific shop pages for those that want to buy the thing they are reading about, a button on the front page, a link in the top-left would be enough links to shop, even the black bar shop link is not really needed. But yes a method of helping the user "select" the devices is needed but maybe not as a "buying guide".

Paul

EDIT - I see the resources tab has changed while I've been writing - the page the tab links to has good content, perhaps the sub menus should reflect the sections of that page eg Arduino, AC monitoring, pulse counting etc etc

"Robert do you not thing [sic] the System Overview serves as a good buying guide?"

No.

It doesn't seem to do it now. A lot of people (probably most) can't take in all the detail that you and the regulars here know about the various modules, and don't know their capabilities like we do. So they are overwhelmed and cry for help.

What I had in mind was a flow chart that started off with questions about the mains supply, eg single phase (e.g. UK), split phase (e.g.USA), 3-phase; PV/No PV; Real Power/apparent power; and so on, finally arriving at a list: i × CTs, j × emonTx, k × emonBase, etc.

I'm not averse to saying "emonTx or Arduino plus emonTx Shield".

"I see the resources tab has changed while I've been writing"

Whoever is changing it, can they do it in the 5 minutes before the hour UTC, ie. between minute 55 and minute 59, so that we're all looking at the same thing and don't get caught out like Paul was?

"and don't get caught out like Paul was"

I think it may well have been the fairly long post and/or regular distractions and/or very slow typing rather than fast moving changes that caught me out :-)

Paul

@Robert do you not thing the System Overview serves as a good buying guide? I'm not overly fond of the title 'Buying Guide'.

As Robert has pointed out, we get a broad spectrum of users here. From rank beginners to engineers.

The tech-aware are probably able to figure out what they need to build a system, with little or no help.

The non-tech folks often say they're so overwhelmed, they're essentially lost.

Buying guide sounds OK to me, but that's because it's an often-used term here in the US. Perhaps the term Buyer's guide would be better?

I like Robert's approach. In order to make a sensible purchasing recommendation, you need info from the customer. If they're not forthcoming with the needed info, then ask them. One way to do that, is Robert's
"flow chart" method.

This was my take on what is wanted (rename to *.html and open in your browser). Links that go back to the home page don't yet exist!

@Glyn - Github pages look nice, would be good for things like Emoncms docs

Just added a gh-pages branch in my emoncms fork  & dropped the existing Raspberry Pi installation guides into it (the guides are still in gh markdown with a html wrapper). I haven't updated the links within the pages, but the menus seem to work OK (and it has a mobile menu too).

You can view the results here.

It took a few minutes to create the gh-pages branch & add the html wrapper code, but once that is done, any existing gh markdown documents can quickly be pasted within a wrapper by using a template file, and add the menu link.

The bootstrap theme is from bootswatch.com

Paul

Couple of thoughts for now, Im not sure of the name Resources and to begin with I thought Building blocks itself had been removed until I realised the heading itself linked through. It makes sense to link there to github repositories and the FAQ. With those included perhaps there is no better word. Building blocks/book/learn.. dont really fit. Perhaps adding a dropdown menu item for building blocks would help for now?

Online store or just: Shop?

Online store or just: Shop?

From what I've seen of sites that have them, the term "online store" seems to be the most common.

Bill:

But then, we're in England (or Wales!). In the UK, we tend to say a large "department store", whereas you go to the smaller local "shops".

Trystan:

I used "Technical Information". (4th post above).

I agree "shop" is better IMO, "store" is more American and used for larger establishments in the UK, for me it also has a slightly negative warehouse sounding storage of stock rather than a helpful specialist technical shop, plus shop has no possible confusion with energy store or storage of data, both of which get discussed here.

Why can't building blocks be used? it fits the bill better and it is already a well established term on the forums. If the specific repos and wikis are linked from the relevant places there shouldn't be a need for github and wiki to be menued.

Paul

"Online Store" is a common term, like Bill said. I agree that "Shop" to us has nicer connotations etc, but it might not be clear to users from elsewhere. That was the thinking,

If there is a new user out there who has noticed this thread (and is possibly pulling their hair out in frustration due to being completely lost) your feedback would be very welcome!

In the UK, we tend to say a large "department store", whereas you go to the smaller local "shops".

Actually, it's the same here. We use the term department store quite a bit too.
The term "shop" as used in the US, tends to be the verb form, i.e. "to go shopping."

Store is used a lot more than shop, when we refer to a place to buy goods. e.g. grocery store,
clothing store, appliance store, etc.

Shop usually refers to a business that provides services. e.g. car repair shop, machine shop, barber shop etc.

Perhaps the term "purchase online" would be a better choice.

'Online Store' for the reasons that both Gwil & Bill have given.

Paul

There are a couple of problems with the home page (http://openenergymonitor.org/emon/node/1):
Typo (Hardwar Modules), which then points to a nonexistent page.

Thanks, It's been fixed. 

22.56 - ....which then points to a nonexistent page.
22.57 - Thanks, It's been fixed. 

The support here is seriously lacking... :>

Paul

Paul (B): "Why can't building blocks be used?"

What does that mean to someone new to the site? Is it hardware or software modules that plug together? I called the umbrella heading for BB+Github+Wiki "Technical Information" because I wanted to avoid that sort of confusion. I realise BB is established and we all know what it means, but what about the newbie? - There was an example in the forums here recently that showed the confusion that the choice of a name can cause: the person who thought an Arduino Shield was to protect it from high voltages.

"Technical Information" IMO translates to 'stuff too complicated to read', whilst 'Building Blocks' seems somehow to be more easily assimilated, as it infers 'from the ground up'.

Paul

If it's too complicated to read, whoever that is doesn't need to read it. Everyone else will find what they are looking for.

Hi guys,

Thanks again for all the feedback, it's been interesting debating the various options. I think for the time being we will keep it like it is, it may not be perfect bu IMO it's an improvement over what was there before and should hopefully be clearer for new users. It's difficult to see the site for the first time through the eyes of a new user. At the end of the day this is what's important; to make it was intuitive as possible for new users. For most of us on this thread we don't have much a problem navigating the site and if your like me probably use URL's most of the time anyway! 

I have been convinced that a 'Buyers Guide' under getting started would be a good idea. If this could be in the form of a flow chart as Robert suggested I think this has the potential to work very well. 

@Robert: have you got a particular layout for the flow chart in mind or shall Gwil and I have a crack at making a draft? Anyone know of any recommend flow chat drawing software (ideally open source or online)? 

"@Robert: have you got a particular layout for the flow chart in mind..."

Nope. I stopped thinking about it when it looked as if it wouldn't be followed up. Even whether it can all be done on one page is unclear, as there are so many permutations. I put my first thoughts down above: What I had in mind was a flow chart that started off with questions about the mains supply, eg single phase (e.g. UK), split phase (e.g.USA), 3-phase; PV/No PV; Real Power/apparent power; and so on, finally arriving at a list: i × CTs, j × emonTx, k × emonBase, etc.

My fear is that unless a lot of thought goes into it, and a conscious decision is made to leave some detail off, a chart could very easily become too busy and too complicated.

"shall Gwil and I have a crack at making a draft?"
If you wish. I'll be tied up now for approx 2 weeks and won't be thinking much about OEM, so if time is of the essence...

drawing software
Rather than learn another package, I'd have used Inkscape. I think it can automatically do connectors, but it might not be as good as a dedicated package.

Hi Glyn,

Perhaps this might serve as a source of ideas for building a flowchart.
http://www.brultech.com/products/ECM1240/SelectingSystem.htm

Something to brainstorm over, and in a rough sense, serve as a kind of template for the flowchart decision process. If nothing else, it might give you some ideas about what questions the customer should be asked.